Replace ALSA/Pulseaudio with OSS4

[cesium]

igorzwx: Please don't push Arch in every thread. A distro reinstall/change is usually the last resort.

hifihere: Does "osstest" work and emit sound? Does 'ossinfo -v3' emit lots of output? If so, oss is installed. Now, I think this wiki page will show you how to configure stuff to use OSS. (KDE, for example uses phonon for sound. Latest gnome IIRC uses libcanberra for notifications). If anything is unclear, please ask here.

[igorzwx]

igorzwx: Please don't push Arch in every thread. A distro reinstall/change is usually the last resort.

Do you know the answer to the question of how to "Replace ALSA/Pulseaudio with OSS4"?

I do not think that changing to Arch Linux might be a solution in this particular case, but that howto with Arch LiveCD may help to understand how ALSA/PulseAudio might be replaced with OSS4.

On Ubuntu and Arch, you have to blacklist ALSA modules, then reboot, then install OSS4.
Otherwise, you may not have sound, although OSS4 might be installed.
You can also unload ALSA, and then install OSS4, but you have to blacklist ALSA modules to prevent them from loading during the next reboot.

The Arch LiveCD is a very useful diagnostic tool. I use it myself, before installing OSS4 on somebody's Ubuntu.
Is there another diagnostic tool of the sort?

I suggesting leaving Pulse there. It's too difficult to remove given package dependencies, and it's unnecessary really.

The problem of dependencies can be easily solved on Ubuntu/Debian through the help of a text editor (and you know this).
On Arch Linux, it is even more simple: pacman -Rd [package-name]
Is Fedora Linux so special, that nobody can remove a package without breaking dependencies?

In the official Ubuntu documentation, there is a manual which explains how to replace ALSA/Pulseaudio with OSS4
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound

There should be a similar manual in the Fedora documentation.

Boy, is squeeze's buildsystem ugly.

And what about PulseAudio? It is difficult, or ugly, or it is beautiful?

[hifihere]

I really appreciate the help and attention you two have provided here. It has been dead quiet for me over in the Fedora forum.

I had already tried the Ubuntu instructions for switching to OSS but my Fedora does not recognize a single command on that page.

Maybe my hardware is not compatible. I don't know what the normal behavior is if OSS installs in that situation. I was able to remove Pulseaudio yesterday and my multimedia options changed from having only Pulseaudio listed to showing all my available hardware devices. Still no OSS. That also broke my Vortexbox since no player was available. When Pulseaudio is removed it takes four critical dependencies with it.

If I try to reinstall OSS4 it says"already installed" but if I enter any OSS commands for testing none are recognized.

[igorzwx]

I really appreciate the help and attention you two have provided here. It has been dead quiet for me over in the Fedora forum.

I had already tried the Ubuntu instructions for switching to OSS but my Fedora does not recognize a single command on that page.

Maybe my hardware is not compatible. I don't know what the normal behavior is if OSS installs in that situation. I was able to remove Pulseaudio yesterday and my multimedia options changed from having only Pulseaudio listed to showing all my available hardware devices. Still no OSS. That also broke my Vortexbox since no player was available. When Pulseaudio is removed it takes four critical dependencies with it.

If I try to reinstall OSS4 it says"already installed" but if I enter any OSS commands for testing none are recognized.

1. Ubuntu-specific commands should not work on Fedora.

2. To find out whether your "hardware is not compatible" or not, you may test your computer with that Arch LiveCD.

3. The re-installation of OSS4 is a very special operation. It should be done carefully, otherwise, OSS4 may not work.

For example, on Arch Linux, OSS4 can be reinstalled in this way:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3543&start=30#p15711

Step 6: Remove (purge) OSS, if you have it installed

1. Close all audio apps

2. Remove mixer applet from the panel.

3. kill ossxmix

$ killall ossxmix

4. Stop OSS (as root)

# soundoff

5. Remove OSS (as root)

# pacman -Rd oss

# rm -rf /usr/lib/oss

Step 7: Install the recompiled OSS package (as root):

# pacman -U oss-4.2_2003-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz

It is very probable that Cesium knows the Fedora commands you need, or he knows who knows.

[cesium]

I really appreciate the help and attention you two have provided here. It has been dead quiet for me over in the Fedora forum.

I had already tried the Ubuntu instructions for switching to OSS but my Fedora does not recognize a single command on that page.

That won't work - different package systems. You should force reinstall using something like 'rpm -ivh --force' (rpm file).

I was able to remove Pulseaudio yesterday and my multimedia options changed from having only Pulseaudio listed to showing all my available hardware devices. Still no OSS.

As I said, don't do that (at least yet)! Instead reinstall OSS and Pulse, and get Pulse to work with OSS by following the this. Keep most stuff config'd to use Pulse, and once this works (as in "emits sound" not as in "displays it uses Pulseaudio" which is fine), we'll slowly migrate stuff to use OSS directly.

If I try to reinstall OSS4 it says"already installed" but if I enter any OSS commands for testing none are recognized.

Force reinstall of the rpm... 'rpm -ivh --force' or something like that.

[cesium]

I do not think that changing to Arch Linux might be a solution in this particular case, but that howto with Arch LiveCD may help to understand how ALSA/PulseAudio might be replaced with OSS4.

On Ubuntu and Arch, you have to blacklist ALSA modules, then reboot, then install OSS4.

Well, OSS4 tries to get rid of the ALSA modules, so blacklisting usually isn't needed... You're right it can be used to understand the process, but most users aren't that technically minded....

The problem of dependencies can be easily solved on Ubuntu/Debian through the help of a text editor (and you know this).
On Arch Linux, it is even more simple: pacman -Rd [package-name]
Is Fedora Linux so special, that nobody can remove a package without breaking dependencies?

The package system is a bit different from what we're used to, so I rather avoid recommending messing with it. Besides, it's a bit of a mess on Debian/Ubuntu to _keep_ the dependencies edited (you need to repatch a certain file every time after running "apt-get update", and sometimes you need to hold packages and update them manually). I prefer to try to work with the package system rather than work against it, even if it (for example) keeps libasound2 on the machine.

And what about PulseAudio? It is difficult, or ugly, or it is beautiful?

There aren't any "beautiful" build systems out there, but it's IIRC normal (./configure && make, etc.). Squeeze's system seems to keep a large amount of source patches in a separate dir, and applies different patches depending on makefile used... So it's difficult to see what actually gets build (one needs to examine the source, the patches and the makefiles, rather than merely examining the source).

[hifihere]

I think I will start from scratch and install a fresh Fedora/Vortexbox distro. I have done too much hacking on this one.

I will want to install Squeezeslave as my player of choice to use instead of MPD. According to Squeezeslave wiki it includes OSS4. How can I make that install? I understand that I should leave ALSA and Pulseaudio alone this time.

BTW, my sound device is on the compatible list for OSS.

[igorzwx]

Well, OSS4 tries to get rid of the ALSA modules, so blacklisting usually isn't needed... You're right it can be used to understand the process, but most users aren't that technically minded....

blacklisting is really needed. I had this problem several times, and some other users had this problem too. And re-installation should be done carefully too.

The package system is a bit different from what we're used to, so I rather avoid recommending messing with it. Besides, it's a bit of a mess on Debian/Ubuntu to _keep_ the dependencies edited (you need to repatch a certain file every time after running "apt-get update", and sometimes you need to hold packages and update them manually). I prefer to try to work with the package system rather than work against it, even if it (for example) keeps libasound2 on the machine.

Yes, such things should be done carefully. The problem seems to be that nobody of us knows how to do that on Fedora.

There aren't any "beautiful" build systems out there, but it's IIRC normal (./configure && make, etc.). Squeeze's system seems to keep a large amount of source patches in a separate dir, and applies different patches depending on makefile used... So it's difficult to see what actually gets build (one needs to examine the source, the patches and the makefiles, rather than merely examining the source).

Which package of the following list are you going to install or recompile?

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$ yaourt squeeze
1 extra/squeeze 0.2.3-3 [installed] (xfce4-goodies)
    Squeeze is a modern and advanced archive manager for the Xfce Desktop Environment.
2 aur/bjj 4.2-1 (8)
    Bill's Jammin' Jukebox for MPD and Squeezebox
3 aur/squeezebox-server 7.5.2b31223.20100824-1 (19)
    Streaming audio server supported by Logitech
4 aur/squeezeboxserver 7.4.1-1 (Out of Date) (4)
    Powerful streaming audio server from Slim Devices
5 aur/squeezecenter 7.4.1-7 (Out of Date) (8)
    Powerful streaming audio server from Logitech (former Slimdevices)
6 aur/squeezeslave-svn 164-1 (0)
    SqueezeSlave is a software implementation of the Squeezebox from Slim Devices which is now owned by Logitech.
==> Enter n° (separated by blanks, or a range) of packages to be installed
==> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
==>


You're right it can be used to understand the process, but most users aren't that technically minded....

Are you going to say that most users are not intelligent enough to be able to remove PulseAudio?
The Russian kids proved the opposite. The most of them easily removed PulseAudio and re-compiled certain packages themselves.

[hifihere]

I am willing to admit that the Russian kids are way ahead of me on Linux!

The only item in your list that applies to me and Squeezeslave is number 6. I have tried the instructions here

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http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezeSlave#Linux_build_instructions

but "makefile" commands are not recognized so far.

[igorzwx]

I am willing to admit that the Russian kids are way ahead of me on Linux!

The only item in your list that applies to me and Squeezeslave is number 6. I have tried the instructions here

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http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezeSlave#Linux_build_instructions

but "makefile" commands are not recognized so far.

The large majority of the Russian Ubuntu users seems to be students of psychology, or economics, not really technically minded. Many of them installed Arch Linux too, because it is regarded as "cool". But the "coolest" seems to be Gentoo, Slackware, or LFS.

I will try that number 6.

[igorzwx]

Everything was compiled, installed and exported with one command

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$ yaourt -Sb --export ~/Desktop/build-sq-slave squeezeslave-svn

==> Exporting squeezeslave-svn to /home/igor/Desktop/build-sq-slave repository
`/tmp/yaourt-tmp-igor/PKGDEST.Oqx/squeezeslave-svn-204-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz' -> `/home/igor/Desktop/build-sq-slave/squeezeslave-svn-204-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz'

==> Continue installing squeezeslave-svn ? [Y/n]
==> [v]iew package contents [c]heck package with namcap
==> ---------------------------------------------------
==> y

Password:
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...

Targets (1): squeezeslave-svn-204-1

Total Download Size:    0.00 MB
Total Installed Size:   0.54 MB

Proceed with installation? [Y/n] y
checking package integrity...
(1/1) installing squeezeslave-svn                                        [#########################################] 100%

==> Checking vote status for squeezeslave-svn
You have to create ~/.config/aurvote with inside: user=YOUR_AUR_USERNAME pass=YOUR_AUR_PASS To create a new account just go to: http://aur.archlinux.org/account.php

$ yaourt squeezeslave-svn
1 aur/squeezeslave-svn 164-1 [204-1 installed] (0)
    SqueezeSlave is a software implementation of the Squeezebox from Slim Devices which is now owned by Logitech.
==> Enter n° (separated by blanks, or a range) of packages to be installed
==> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
==>

Certain kernel patches were installed too.

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2010-10-13 21:57:21 (316 KB/s) - “lirc-0.8.6.tar.bz2.part” saved [730341/730341]

  -> Found kernel-2.6.33.patch
  -> Found kernel-2.6.35.patch
==> Validating source files with md5sums...
    lirc-0.8.6.tar.bz2 ... Passed
    kernel-2.6.33.patch ... Passed
    kernel-2.6.35.patch ... Passed
==> Extracting Sources...
  -> Extracting lirc-0.8.6.tar.bz2 with bsdtar
==> Entering fakeroot environment...
==> Starting build()...
patching file drivers/lirc_dev/lirc_dev.h
patching file drivers/lirc_dev/lirc_dev.c
patching file drivers/lirc_sir/lirc_sir.c
patching file drivers/lirc_serial/lirc_serial.c
patching file drivers/lirc_bt829/lirc_bt829.c
patching file drivers/lirc_sasem/lirc_sasem.c
patching file drivers/lirc_igorplugusb/lirc_igorplugusb.c
patching file drivers/lirc_imon/lirc_imon.c
patching file drivers/lirc_it87/lirc_it87.c
patching file drivers/lirc_streamzap/lirc_streamzap.c
patching file drivers/lirc_atiusb/lirc_atiusb.c
patching file drivers/lirc_parallel/lirc_parallel.c
patching file drivers/lirc_wpc8769l/lirc_wpc8769l.c
patching file drivers/lirc_mceusb/lirc_mceusb.c
patching file drivers/lirc_i2c/lirc_i2c.c
patching file drivers/lirc_atiusb/lirc_atiusb.c
Hunk #2 succeeded at 71 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #3 succeeded at 1378 (offset 4 lines).
patching file drivers/lirc_atiusb/lirc_atiusb.c
Hunk #2 succeeded at 71 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #3 succeeded at 826 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #4 succeeded at 875 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #5 succeeded at 941 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #6 succeeded at 980 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #7 succeeded at 1396 (offset 2 lines).
patching file drivers/lirc_atiusb/lirc_atiusb.c
Hunk #2 succeeded at 71 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #3 succeeded at 826 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #4 succeeded at 871 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #5 succeeded at 933 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #6 succeeded at 967 (offset 2 lines).
Hunk #7 succeeded at 1378 (offset 2 lines).
patching file drivers/kcompat.h
patching file drivers/lirc_igorplugusb/lirc_igorplugusb.c
Hunk #1 succeeded at 454 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #2 succeeded at 490 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #3 succeeded at 573 (offset 7 lines).
patching file drivers/lirc_mceusb/lirc_mceusb.c
Hunk #1 succeeded at 87 (offset 7 lines).
Hunk #2 succeeded at 103 (offset 7 lines).
Hunk #3 succeeded at 124 (offset 7 lines).
Hunk #4 succeeded at 211 (offset -1 lines).
Hunk #5 succeeded at 233 (offset -3 lines).
Hunk #6 succeeded at 280 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #7 succeeded at 292 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #8 succeeded at 345 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #9 succeeded at 484 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #10 succeeded at 544 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #11 succeeded at 629 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #12 succeeded at 749 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #13 succeeded at 848 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #14 succeeded at 894 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #15 succeeded at 909 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #16 succeeded at 927 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #17 succeeded at 955 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #18 succeeded at 977 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #19 succeeded at 1020 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #20 succeeded at 1091 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #21 succeeded at 1118 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #22 succeeded at 1133 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #23 succeeded at 1148 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #24 succeeded at 1185 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #25 succeeded at 1199 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #26 succeeded at 1206 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #27 succeeded at 1222 (offset -6 lines).
Hunk #28 succeeded at 1277 (offset -6 lines).
patching file drivers/lirc_streamzap/lirc_streamzap.c
Hunk #2 succeeded at 58 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #3 succeeded at 87 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #4 succeeded at 159 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #5 succeeded at 323 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #6 succeeded at 342 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #7 succeeded at 362 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #8 succeeded at 435 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #9 succeeded at 562 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #10 succeeded at 595 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #11 succeeded at 677 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #12 succeeded at 711 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #13 succeeded at 755 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #14 succeeded at 827 (offset 4 lines).
patching file drivers/lirc.h
patching file drivers/lirc_dev/lirc_dev.c
Hunk #2 succeeded at 371 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #3 succeeded at 544 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #4 succeeded at 594 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #5 succeeded at 697 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #6 succeeded at 722 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #7 succeeded at 739 (offset 4 lines).
Hunk #8 succeeded at 835 (offset 4 lines).
patching file drivers/lirc_dev/lirc_dev.h

The question remains: "Does it work?"

All the results (including the compiled packages) were packed into one file:
build-sq-slave.tar.bz2 Size: 1.3 MB

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$ ls
help2man                           
listing_from_terminal.txt.tar.bz2
help2man-1.38.2-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz 
report.txt
lirc                               
squeezeslave-svn
lirc-0.8.6-7-i686.pkg.tar.xz       
squeezeslave-svn-204-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz
listing_from_terminal.txt

I can upload it here, if Cesium agree.

The listing from terminal is in the attachment.

This experiment can be easily reproduced with Arch LiveCD by those who pretend to be "technically minded", and those who do not pretend.

Edit: If PulseAudio is removed, you can get mathematically perfect sound with ALSA too, provided that a certain Russian plugin is installed.
However, if it is said that PulseAudio is so difficult to remove, and you believe that...

EDIT: Dr. Google told that it seems to be possible to remove a package on Fedora:
http://www.google.com/search?q=fedora%2 ... 8&oe=UTF-8
It seems that the Russian kids did that:
http://www.linux.org.ru/forum/general/4574360
http://www.fedoralinux.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2059
http://www.google.com/search?q=pulseaud ... 8&oe=UTF-8
http://www.google.com/search?q=pulseaud ... 8&oe=UTF-8
However, it does not seem to be easy to do. It might be easier to install Arch on 20 different computers.

[hifihere]

I have succeeded in getting Squeezeslave to operate only to find that it can only support 16/44.1 resolution.

So back to my original objective, up to 24/192 support, gapless FLAC playback and bit perfect output.

The Vortexbox/MPD player covers all but gapless FLAC playback. I was hoping that moving to OSS4 would help that problem. I have discovered that others before me have found the MPD player to blame for the rough FLAC playback. It is not an artifact of ALSA/Pulseaudio apparently.

Maybe I am trying to achieve the immpossible.

[igorzwx]

I have succeeded in getting Squeezeslave to operate only to find that it can only support 16/44.1 resolution.

So back to my original objective, up to 24/192 support, gapless FLAC playback and bit perfect output.

The Vortexbox/MPD player covers all but gapless FLAC playback. I was hoping that moving to OSS4 would help that problem. I have discovered that others before me have found the MPD player to blame for the rough FLAC playback. It is not an artifact of ALSA/Pulseaudio apparently.

Maybe I am trying to achieve the immpossible.

As is was already said, it is possible to improve sound quality with ALSA, but this has a little to do with OSS4 forum.
The problem of sound quality in Linux and FreeBSD was discussed here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3543

[hifihere]

Igor, thanks for all your efforts you displayed for installation with Arch. Since I am working with Fedora I could not use the same commands easily.

I was hoping that installing OSS4 would improve my situation but I don't think I can install it to this distro without a computer sciences degree and many years of UNIX programming experience.

[igorzwx]

Igor, thanks for all your efforts you displayed for installation with Arch. Since I am working with Fedora I could not use the same commands easily.

I was hoping that installing OSS4 would improve my situation but I don't think I can install it to this distro without a computer sciences degree and many years of UNIX programming experience.

I do not think that one needs a scientific degree to be able to type a few words into Google: "Howto install OSS4 on Fedora"

Howto install oss4 [Archive] - FedoraForum.org
25 Dec 2009 ... [Archive] Howto install oss4 Guides & Solutions
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=237230